Interview with Greg Gershman of ODEO
October 28, 2008 :: Steve FisherIf you have ever searched for a podcast you most likely started with looking for a podcast directory. Many use iTunes now if they have an iPod, but before iTunes there was Odeo. Odeo was founded in 2004 and was originally developed by founders Noah Glass and Evan Williams, who were previously founders of Audioblog and Pyra Labs respectively, and received funding from Charles River Ventures. Subsequently, Williams bought out Charles River’s interest in the company, as well as several other investors, and reformed the organization under a new company, Obvious Corp, which planned to develop new products, including Twitter.
Most of you know that Twitter became a force of nature and they decided to focus their energy on that product. In February 2007 it was up for sale and acquired by New York-based Sonic Mountain. In September that year, Sonic Mountain announced it had acquired the technology assets of FireAnt, an RSS video aggregation website and desktop media player, with plans to incorporate this technology into the Odeo service.
In March 2008, Sonic Mountain announced it had acquired Blogdigger, a search engine for blogs and RSS content, with plans to incorporate the technology into Odeo. This is where find Greg Gershman, former CEO of Blogdigger and now VP of Engineering at Odeo with the mission to re-launch a completely redesigned site with an expanded focus on search & discovery for syndicated audio and video.
Greg also runs the site NoMoreTV.com which is a web site he set up to perform an experiment. Give up cable and broadcast TV for a year to see how easy or hard it is get all of his TV content online.
I recently had a chance to chat with Greg about the re-launch and the future of Odeo. Here is the transcript of that interview:
Steve: You worked hard to build BlogDigger over the last few years. What were the reasons you decided to be acquired by Odeo?
Greg: I started Blogdigger in 2003 almost as an experiment; I had no intentions of making it into a business. Over time, the site picked up users and traffic and got to the point where I was able to work on it full-time. But it was only ever a one-man operation. I wanted to progress beyond that and working with Odeo was a good opportunity for me to see Blogdigger off in a nice way and take what I had learned and apply it in a broader context. The technology and the experience that I had gained by building Blogdigger was a nice fit with what Odeo was looking for at the time, so the acquisition seemed like a logical direction to take.
Steve: Many people use iTunes as their main podcasting directory because they have an iPod. Because Odeo has gone way beyond being just a podcast directory, how do you see as an alternative or a compliment to the iTunes podcast directory?
Greg: Podcasting has become almost synonymous with iTunes, which is not the case. You don’t need an iPod to listen to or watch a podcast. All you need is an internet connection and a browser. In addition, there are many channels of content that aren’t set up as podcasts, but you may want to track on a regular basis, like YouTube channels or TV shows on Hulu. iTunes is severely limited in this regard. In addition, iTunes only works with iPods and iPhones. But what about other mobile devices that have the capabilities to store audio and video? I have a Verizon phone that I use to watch video podcasts, iTunes can’t help me there. The guiding idea behind Odeo was that we wanted to embrace all users, whether online or on a mobile device, independent of what device they are using. If the content can only be viewed online, like a Hulu show, then Odeo can help you track and watch those shows; if the content is a downloadable video podcast, and you have a Blackberry, Odeo will let you watch that video where you want to. iTunes is never going to look beyond the Apple user.
Steve: Because Odeo has gone way beyond being just a podcast directory; what is the vision for Odeo going forward?
Greg: We’re really looking at two things: how can we help content producers better connect, track and measure their audience, and how can we help the content consumer better consume the content where they want to, when they want to. Everything we’re working on is focused around those two goals. For content producers, we’ve added tracking and statistics for episodes and subscribers, and opening up our stats for integration into other systems. For consumers, we’ve built a searchable, categorized digital media directory that includes audio and video podcasts, TV shows and web-based video, and we’re working on supporting mobile devices; our solution for syncing content to a mobile device should be coming out sometime in the next few months, and we’re working on native applications for popular mobile platforms like Blackberry and Android.
Steve: Since your expertise is in search, do you see the evolution of search in audio and video files becoming more important and more content like this grows on the web?
Greg: Absolutely. It’s relatively simple now to set up a basic search engine for a store of content. There are tools that can be used to do this quite simply. But that gets you less than half way there; with the tremendous growth of user-generated content, the quality of the content in your index quickly becomes a huge issue. So there has to be advanced tools and algorithms in place to ensure that the quality of the content being returned is high. This is what Google did for the web, back in 1998, and what is still being fleshed out now for various different audio and video search solutions. I have some pretty strong opinions about what works and what doesn’t, but it really all depends on the goal of the application. Odeo’s goal is to turn up reliable and reputable channels of content, or interesting/relevant pieces of media, in response to a user search; so we’ve put together an algorithm that reflects what we think will best approximates what our users are looking for.
Steve: Since Odeo has transformed itself from a directory to a real platform with social networking and search, how has this transition changed the culture and selling approach of Odeo to potential advertisers?
Greg: It does open up a new set of possibilities for us in terms of advertising. We still have display advertising throughout the site, but we’re now looking at ways we can use our search pages and the dashboard portions of the site to better help publishers grow and connect with their audience. Odeo’s user’s are mostly hardcore podcast enthusiasts and digital media early adopters, so it’s an excellent platform for content producers to market to dedicated audiences. We’re also looking at how we can partner with content producers to help them get better exposure to their shows, through features and other promotions.
Steve: Is there anything you can talk about for Odeo coming up on the roadmap over the 12 months we should be looking forward to?
Greg: We’ve got a lot going on over the next few months. I’m really excited about the updates we’ve got planned for the Odeo homepage. Right now, it’s really just a collection of featured shows/channels, but we’ve got some plans in the works for making it more dynamic and interesting. We’re also going to be rolling out our mobile device support to the public in the next few months. This will mean that you’ll be able to subscribe to a channel on Odeo and have the content show up on your mobile device, whether it’s a phone or a PDA or a video device. Things are starting to converge with the Web as the central component of a media distribution network that I think we’re well positioned to take advantage of.
Steve: According to Gartner, the hype has worn off of podcasting and it has been integrated into the mainstream. Do you agree or disagree and why?
Greg: Nothing interesting has happened in podcasting since Apple came out with support for podcasting in iTunes. People associate podcasting with iPods. This has not been good for podcasting, as, in many people’s minds, podcasting is inextricably tied to Apple. This is beginning to change, with the growth of online video, where podcasting becomes just one of many ways users can get at content. I think what we’re progressing towards is a much more integrated world; iTunes will become like another YouTube, but focused on your Apple device. For everything else, or for a better experience with more complete search and better recommendations, there will be Odeo and other video hosting/aggregation services. It will depend on your medium and the availability of the content you are interested in.
As for podcasting itself, we’re still straddling the fence between marketing content and actual content. I think we’re going to see growth in the area of branded content, especially video, which is much more measurable in terms of the statistics that are required for monetization.
Steve: To close our interview I would like to get a “Top 5” from you. Many small businesses are still exploring starting a podcast for their business. What should be the top 5 things they should consider when thinking about launching a podcast?
Greg: It really depends on your business goals, and if you’re targeting a broad audience or a targeted audience. Either way, it’s about marketing, and that means you have to be creative, to do something to set yourself apart from all the others that are out there. You also need to have the right technology in place to track your content and understand, as much as possible, what your audience is needs and wants. You should let your content be free, and let people discover it wherever they are. If you want to funnel them back to your site, build that into the content; if your goal is monetization, build that in as well. Interact with your audience as much as possible. Don’t just broadcast to them, use the web to communicate and respond and build a more meaningful connection. And once again, be creative. It’s really the most important thing. If you’re going to be successful on the web, you have to be doing something others aren’t. And the best way to get creative is to start doing stuff, and figure out what works. It may take a few tries, but you’ll get there.
1. Be creative
2. Find and use the right tools
3. Let the content be free
4. Be responsive; communicate, don’t just broadcast
5. Just do it. You learn more doing than by planning.
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